Norda Mullen on Creativity—From Classical Roots to Blockbusters, with an American Twist
Both of Norda Mullen's childhood dreams came true—playing in blockbuster movies and joining a major band. She played in a series of movies from The Matrix Trilogy to Toy Story and toured the world...
…with the legendary Moody Blues. The Richmond-based, multi-talented musician says she put conscious effort and desire out into the universe, did the work, and then—she says with a warm smile—it was all lucky!
* For the first time, I’m publishing this as a podcast, too—with umms, yeahs, you knows, and all. It feels a little nerve-wracking, but here we go! You can either listen via the podcast player or carry on reading a shortened version of our conversation below.
We met with musician and dear friend Norda Mullen and her warm smile - perfectly complemented by the velvety calm of her voice - on the second floor of the Old Ship in Richmond. It’s the place where I meet with my fellow Table52 Writers on Fridays and where I’ve hosted my Tales and Tunes Talks a couple of times so far.
This interview is particularly exciting for me, as it’s my first with a professional musician after speaking with two writer friends from Table52 and our editor, perfectly aligning with the essence of Tales and Tunes, where storytelling intertwines with music.
Besides being an amazing human and a multi-talented creative, Norda is a classically trained musician who studied with the principal flutists of both the London Symphony and the Chicago Symphony. She has performed in a series of blockbuster movies, including Monsters, Inc., Toy Story 2 & 3, The Matrix Trilogy, Jurassic Park 2 & 3, Meet the Parents, and Cars, as well as numerous TV commercials!
This fulfilled one of her childhood dreams—playing in big movies. The other was performing with a major rock’n’roll band, which came true when she joined the famous Moody Blues in 2003 and toured the world with them, performing at every concert.
In the years that followed, she released two solo albums, Norda and Give It Up, and continues creating, performing at various venues especially in South West London and making music while leading a quiet life in Richmond with her husband and two dogs.
Seated in our comfy, old armchairs, overlooking George Street of Richmond, we begin our conversation. I learned so much from our talk and enjoyed every moment—I hope you do, too!
Sinem: Thank you for coming to my cherished corner of the world, Tales and Tunes.
Norda: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate your invitation.
Sinem: So, on my way here, I was listening in the car your song, This Beautiful World, from your album, Norda which is fantastic. A lot of songs in that album are great but I quite like that one.
Norda: And what made you like that do you think?
Sinem: I don’t know; the intimacy, the sincerity of your singing, I guess.
Norda: That was a song for my dad. It was written for my dad.
Sinem: Oh, I miss my dad these days, maybe that’s why.
Norda: Do you want me to tell you how I wrote that?
Sinem: Please carry on.
Norda: My dad had Alzheimer's, he was dying of Alzheimer's. I'm basically saying, ‘You're good, you could go, you've done a great job at raising all of us to appreciate life. And then I put a little musical quote from the song ‘Amazing Grace’ on the flute because that was his all-time favourite. Maybe you feel that sentiment somehow. It was very hard for me to sing that song because he was still alive at the time. So, I was just on the verge of crying probably.
Sinem: It’s also your velvety sound of your singing really… So, my first question would be; how did you decide to lead a creative life as a musician despite these challenges in today's life? And what were the main challenges you came across along the way? What made you go ahead?
Norda: It's sort of strange. I think I've never really thought of doing anything else.
Sinem: From a very young age…
Norda: Yes, and I never gave it a thought and I don't know what that means. It doesn't mean I'm some genius or anything like that. But for some reason my little outlook on life was that. I never even considered a different career. It just happened organically, but I come from a family of a lot of musicians. My mother was a violinist, a classical violinist and also a mandolin player because she was Greek.
Sinem: Oh, I didn't know that.
Norda: Yeah, a very good mandolin player. My grandfather played the organ and my grandmother played ragtime piano. My cousins play marimba, music was always going on in our house. And we always had a piano in the middle of the living room. So, we just fought over the piano and, and being in Mississippi, there's not a lot to do. So, I spent a lot of time with music, it was great.
Sinem: Amazing and your background is in the classical world…
Norda: Yes, it is
Sinem: Then, you made a transition, you joined the famous Moody Blues band and travelled all around the world. How did that transition happen?
Norda: Well, it happened sort of because of my childhood. It was easy for me, I didn't even transition, I did it as well as classical music. I was trained classically and I was working classically as a studio musician in Chicago and then LA, playing on TV commercials. I did a lot of commercials and then got into playing on movie soundtracks as a flute player.
Sinem: Lot of blockbuster movies actually…
Norda: Yes, a lot of very large movies, a lot of Pixar movies and I was able to work with a lot of great composers. Then alongside that came the call from the Moody Blues. I was able to easily take that job with them. Because I grew up in a house with five older siblings.
Sinem: Looks like a happy home.
Norda: It was happy, but a lot of things were going on.
Sinem: Like in all families.
Norda: Yes, exactly. Also in the world, it was the Vietnam War in America. And there was a lot of music being played in our house. And I had some older siblings that were hippies and my brother didn't want to get drafted for the war.
He was trying to avoid the draft because he was terrified. It was all this consciousness of the war and the rock and roll music that was happening at that time. I was exposed to it constantly. Meanwhile I was practicing my classical music, I always heard other music, too. And I heard the Moody Blues my whole life. So, when they called me, it was like a shoe that fit perfectly. They said, ‘We warn you, there are some funny notes in solos’ and I said, ‘It's no problem. I've got it.’ So, it was just a wonderful stroke of luck that I got that call from them.
Sinem: Amazing. But also, I read one of your interviews on your website; it said there were two main things as a childhood dream of yours. One was playing in a rock band one day. And the other was playing alongside famous movies.
Norda: Yes, exactly.
Sinem: So, both of them came true.
Norda: It's the strangest thing. And I never really thought, okay, how will I go about doing it? I just stated that conscious effort and desire out to the universe and then it just happened. But I was preparing for it all the time. You know, it seems so I didn't want it to just happen without doing the work. So, I did the work. And then it all was lucky. . .
Sinem: So, you grew up in Tennessee?
Norda: I was born in Tennessee, lived there for three years. And then we moved to Mississippi. And I was there for another 14 years.
Sinem: And now, you ended up living in London.
Norda: Yes, yes. It’s crazy.
Sinem: So, how did you find this change? This is another transition, I believe.
Norda: That was a funny one too, lots of big things 😊
Sinem: And how is it affecting your music? Are you still tied too much to your roots? And it's living in you and you carry on as you were, or is London life shaping your music?
Norda: That's an interesting question. It's actually both. As also like the combination of my classical training and plus my willingness to play in a rock band. Most classical flute players never give a thought to playing in a rock and roll band, but my dream was not just any rock and roll band. When I said those two statements when I was young, I said it had to be a very big band. It didn't have to be my band, but it had to be very big, because I didn't want to struggle and be in the back of a band. You know, all that rock and roll stuff. So, I said, they have to be really good. And then movies I played in has the same sort of thinking. Among the songs that I've written since I've moved to London, there's one called Home, and it's actually co-written by my husband and myself.
And what I did in that song, purposely - it's funny you ask that - is one verse talks about the rooster, crowing at dawn. It’s about my roots, about where I grew up, and then the next verse is ‘London calling, traffic crawling’, so just combining my two worlds. So, loving it here, but also thinking of home. It's both.
Some people say how could you have left America? I feel like I'm just a citizen. I hate to say this as it sounds so cliche, but I'm not like ‘I am American and I am nothing else and I can't talk to you’. I didn’t ever have that mentality of we're better than you or I don't see the world like that and I don't see human beings like that.
I wish human beings wouldn't see it like that either because it's the separation thing that I think makes the trouble. So, I didn't mind living, moving here. Everybody's like, how could you have left LA for London weather?
And my very best friend from seven years old said to me this once: ‘Do you remember when you used to say, ‘Deedee, home is at the end of my nose’ And I like to talk that way; I'm at home, wherever I am.
Sinem: So as a person, myself, who's exploring the stories within her lately at this stage of my life, after whole years of corporate life, I tend to believe that we always communicate through stories. And you're telling your stories through your music.
Norda: Yes.
Sinem: Are there any themes or ideas that you find yourself returning to in your work over and over? Not necessarily consciously.
Norda: Yeah, I get it. A few things bother me I found out in my last set of songs…I have to stop watching the news because it's like, several songs are about look what they're doing now. I'm not a real rebel but one song starts with, ‘Did you hear the news today?’ That's the first line. What I found was three or four songs have the word news in the first sentence. So, what you consume - I can't help it - ends up in your music. Also, I'm sensitive to what's going on around me. I'm like a raw nerve, so I can feel it even if I'm not watching the news. I wrote a lockdown song called Say It Anyway, where I felt very trapped and I just said – ‘Tell us either we can stay home or go out. Just say it, what is it you like?’
I was just trying to sort out the fact that I was very isolated, sitting with my music, but then I look out the window, I saw these two trees and I said ‘look at the trees this way. I seem to be influenced by where I am at that moment a lot.
I'm sensitive and I think it's kind of tough. You're sensitive to the world matters all the time. That's probably why I shouldn't watch the news. But it's okay. The world is okay.
Sinem: You were saying when you mentioned about your growing up, your childhood, there was this Vietnam War, perhaps the world was always like that…
Norda: I know that's the thing. I'm just only old enough now to realize, ‘gee, this is so bad.’ My dad fought in World War II. He was in Okinawa and got his top teeth blown out.
Sinem: Okinawa, Japan?
Norda: Yeah, in World War II. And my grandfather was in World War I. And so, this is history of men, isn't it?
“There are times I don't feel creative and I just feel like if I try to go back in that studio and force something out of me, it's just not going to work. And at the opposite end of that, whenever I have written certain songs, they just write themselves. It's weird. I can't force that to happen. That's just a magical moment.”
Sinem: Oh yeah… I'd like to ask you - because you're such a creative person - what have been the biggest challenges in maintaining your creativity throughout your career? It seems you don't have a problem with that at all because you're so creative, things are coming out of you, but, I'm sure there are moments. You know, they call it in writing world, the writer's block. I'm in between whether to believe this or not.
But I sort of experienced myself, too. It's not like project management, okay let's go for it and do it in a certain amount of time with a deadline, it's not like that. It's interesting. Even if you tend to know what you’re going to write, sometimes you can’t. You really have to be in a flow so you enjoy and like your work.
Norda: Oh, got it. I definitely can have it. And what do you do? I just let it pass. I know there are times I don't feel creative and I just feel like if I try to go back in that studio and force something out of me, it's just not going to work. And at the opposite end of that, whenever I have written certain songs, they just write themselves. It's weird. I can't force that to happen. That's just a magical moment.
And then also real life sometimes gets in the way, you know. If I had the time to just sit in my studio all day, I'd probably be more creative, but I also got to live life. I've got a family and I've got, you know, dogs. The biggest challenge is to not let real life tire you out to the point where you can't honour your creative nature and then maybe not push.
I was really pushing when I lived in LA. I was teaching, I was playing in movies, I was touring with the Moody Blues. It was crazy. I did a little talking to myself when I moved here, ‘Okay, it's time to just slow down a bit.’ Sometimes when I get to that borderline with a lot of students, I'm like, okay. But in LA, I would just take them, I had a long waiting list. So now I think I have a pretty good balance.
Sinem: And how was the experience with the movies? You played along with the Cars…
Norda: Yeah, I played in Cars, the Jurassic Park 2 and 3, Meet the Fockers, Meet the Parents, Ratatouille, Princess and the Frog, Monsters, Inc., Toy Story 2 and 3, The Matrixes. Oh, my goodness, it was all crazy. You're basically just sight reading all day long from 10 to 5.
Sinem: But it wasn't like filling a task, it was like a realizing a dream for yourself…
Norda: I would have done it for free! These musicians, we're all in a union. We have to be. But when I first started with the movies, I didn't know this, but right at five o'clock, I noticed the musicians just stood up. Because the day was over. And I was sitting there thinking, I would do this for free, I don't want to leave this room. We're on the Sony soundstage and Warner Brothers and at the Disney soundstage and at Fox. Fantastic. But I had to pretend, yes, it's five o'clock, we've got to go unless they pay us overtime.
Sinem: How nice to have had these experiences…
“Every night at the end of the show, I'd look up and say, thank you, Mum, thank you, Dad. Just because I couldn't believe my luck…”
Norda: Same with the Moody's. Every night at the end of the show, I'd look up and say, thank you, Mum, thank you, Dad. Just because I couldn't believe my luck.
Sinem: So, as someone with a long and varied career, what advice would you give to the aspiring musicians to stay as musicians and carry on as musicians in this harsh world.
Norda: Well, I would say you always have to have a little bit of an alternative way of making money, I would say this, if you want to do music as a career. And just don't ever give up, because eventually something will happen. If you keep at it, if you're still there, hopefully something will happen. But there's a million talented people out there, so it's all about who's going to have the staying power. Just stay there. That's all I've ever thought of doing. I never considered, ‘If I don't do this, I'll be a lawyer’.
Sinem: That's not you at all.
Norda: Yeah, I know. So, the advice I would give, you better love it. You better be ready to work, work, work, work hours a day at honing your craft so that no one can argue.
Sinem: Well, this is a last question from me; how do you see technology affecting your music? Are you on the pessimistic dark side, or are you…
Norda: I'm pretty pessimistically dark. Really, I will say this, because it's a little different now. I can always tell when it's not a real flute player in a soundtrack, and they're trying to save money by using a sample, but it's never the same. But people in the regular world don't know the difference, so they're going to use that machine. Only a flute player would know the difference. That's what technology does. If you're looking at a face, you can kind of tell it's not Brad Pitt, and it's good enough for people that don't really notice. They've sampled the Vienna strings, the Vienna Philharmonic, the strings have sampled one note getting louder, one note getting softer, one note of vibrato, then no vibrato.
All that's now been sampled on a computer, and then they've sold it. They've sold their sound. As a one-off price to be in these sample libraries that composers then can use forever. So, a lot of us musicians were kind of sad that they did that, that the Vienna string players did that.
Sinem: I'm so in between. Isn't it amazing at the same time?
Norda: You're exactly right. And I think we just have to jump on board and say this is how it is now.
Sinem: Well, I feel like it's not the technology to blame, but some other people who need to be dealing with laws and regulations are falling behind.
Norda: Well, because I think it's a totally new territory. Yeah, that's the problem. People are falling behind trying to catch up. Exactly. I don't think we're evolved enough as a species to handle so much potential, the technological potential. Listen, there're bad people everywhere. Back at 200 years ago, they just were on a horse with a gun and robbing banks. There's still going to be negative characters around. But to put so much power in the hands of negative characters is the danger.
We've got some growing pains to go through with technology as a race to handle it. Think of all the great medical things that could happen or anything with robotics. That would be great.
Sinem: You are using technology yourself as well when creating your music…
Norda: Yes. Logic Pro X, that's my digital audio workstation but I have a lot to learn on it. I've taken the class on it twice, but there's a huge learning curve and it has such potential. I have to get to that level of knowledge in my Logic Pro X and that's my challenge for this year.
Sinem: Are there any future collaborations or projects in the near future?
Norda: Well, just more songs of my own that I want to develop and then more with my husband. He has a million ideas. He's got a great knack for the catchy line for the hit song. Also, we're going to do another gig in Putney. And then also there was a guy that I did work with years ago in Chicago and then in LA. We had our own band back then. We're now revisiting this CD that we made in the 90s. We're going to re-release this CD because it's really good.
Sinem: Oh, that's exciting.
Norda: Yes, it is. It's a hard business but wonderful.
Sinem: Thank you so much for coming. Any last words from you?
“There's a million talented people out there, so it's all about who's going to have the staying power. Just stay there… …The minute something becomes uncomfortable, some people say ‘I'm going to quit music, it's too hard.’ That's not an option. And don't listen to anybody.”
Norda: It's just keeping going. So often people, the minute something becomes uncomfortable, say ‘I'm going to quit music, it's too hard.’ That's not an option. You know what I mean? It's about sticking with it.
Sinem: I think so. And then it’s becoming a part of you. And it's a nice way to finish this interview, I guess. So, stick with creativity, you say?
Norda: Yes, stick with it. That's my big advice. And don't listen to anybody. That's the other thing. Don't listen to anybody telling you how you should create, anybody. Do your own thing. What happens is people start to shape you and then your own creativity gets frustrated and trapped and then, it ends up where you just go, ‘I can't do this, it's too hard.’ Because all these little judgments are coming in.
Sinem: Oh, judgments, tell me about the judgments. I'm still dealing with those in myself and others.
Norda: Why would people want to have animosity towards each other in any situation?
Sinem: It is the life struggles basically.
Norda: It is. I see that in the swimming pool where somebody overtakes you and then this person gets angry that they overtook. What is that about? It's one swimming pool, there's just 8 out of 5 billion people on the pool.
Sinem: And about being human…
Norda: Yeah, but if we could learn to let go, it would be a paradise. This place could be paradise.
Sinem: Wonderful ending. Thank you so, so much again for coming.
Norda: Well, anytime you want me to. I hope you enjoyed as well.
Sinem: I loved it.
You can find more about Norda Mullen and her upcoming gigs on her website!
I’d be grateful if you could leave a comment or like this post if you’d like to see more of these inspirational talks with storytellers and musicians leading a creative life!
With love,
Sinem